Football Forum | Ticket Forum | Off-Topic Forum | All

Any Old Iron 1:02 Sun Oct 30
David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

From todays Telegraph

David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six
In 69 attempts, Moyes has never has never won a league match away to Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool or Manchester United

By
Sam Dean
29 October 2022 • 10:30pm
David Moyes and Jurgen Klopp - David Moyes has broken barriers at West Ham, but away trips to the 'Big Six' are his nemesis
“We have been to Anfield and lost narrowly, and lost at Chelsea narrowly. We have got to see if we can change that little bit of unluckiness into luckiness," Moyes says CREDIT: AP

If one image could summarise David Moyes’s painful away record against the biggest sides in the land, it was the sight of the West Ham United manager falling to his knees on the touchline during the final moments of his side’s narrow defeat at Anfield this month.

With 86 minutes on the clock, and West Ham trailing 1-0, the ball fell to Tomas Soucek in the six-yard box. A goal seemed inevitable, until Liverpool midfielder James Milner materialised – seemingly out of thin air – to deflect Soucek’s shot wide.

Such was the shock of it, and the instant anguish of Soucek’s failure to convert, Moyes’s legs gave way.

David Moyes on his knees - David Moyes has broken barriers at West Ham, but away trips to the 'Big Six' are his nemesis
David Moyes fell to his knees after Tomas Soucek went close to equalising in the final few minutes of the defeat at Anfield on October 20 CREDIT: REUTERS
While it was an unfamiliar pose for the West Ham manager, kneeling in horror at what he had just witnessed, it must have been a relatively familiar feeling.

Away trips to the “Big Six” have been a constant source of frustration for the 59-year-old, who has broken through so many barriers at West Ham but is still waiting for his first victory at the home of one of the top teams in the Premier League.

Advertisement

It is not just a problem he has faced at West Ham, either, as Moyes experienced similar difficulties at Everton, Manchester United and Sunderland. So much so that he has never won a league match away to Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool or United as manager – in 69 attempts.

Match No 70 away to these sides arrives on Sunday, when Moyes returns to Old Trafford with a West Ham team growing in confidence after a slow start to the campaign. West Ham have won six of their past eight matches in all competitions, and would move to within three points of United if they won.

While the history books suggest another Moyes defeat is likely, there is a sense that West Ham are getting closer to landing a major blow away to these “Big Six” sides. They are certainly causing plenty of problems for them: Chelsea needed late winners at Stamford Bridge this season and last, while United struck a 90th-minute winner in the same fixture last year.

At the London Stadium, meanwhile, West Ham claimed victories over Tottenham Hotspur, Liverpool and Chelsea last season. Moyes has built a team capable of upsetting the big boys, and it is surely only a matter of time before his players produce a similar level of performance away from home.


“Last year we beat Chelsea, we beat Liverpool, we ran the top teams really well,” Moyes said. “We have been to Anfield and lost narrowly, and lost at Chelsea narrowly. We have got to see if we can change that little bit of unluckiness into luckiness, and see if we can get a result.

“What it comes down to is trying to make your own luck by being brave and positive, and over the last year or so that is the way we have been.

"We have had that mode of trying to challenge the big teams, to give them a game. Sometimes it has not worked out, but that is the way I hope we go about taking them on.”

The desire to turn the “Big Six” into a “Big Seven”, and to consistently threaten these sides, is what fuelled West Ham’s transfer activity this summer.

Jarrod Bowen - David Moyes has broken barriers at West Ham, but away trips to the 'Big Six' are his nemesis
England international Jarrod Bowen was on the scoresheet as West Ham beat Chelsea at the London Stadium last season CREDIT: Shutterstock
Moyes was desperate to add quality, targeting players who could elevate West Ham as a team rather than just padding out the squad, and there is now much more quality at his disposal than in his first few years in east London – even if playmaker Lucas Paqueta will be absent on Sunday due to injury.

His reference to his team showing more “bravery” in the past year is perhaps an indication of what Moyes believes has gone wrong over the seasons. Has there been too much caution from his players, too much respect for the league’s most illustrious opponents?

The Scot’s record at Old Trafford, as a visiting manager, would suggest so. In 15 matches there his teams have scored just 10 goals, and 40 per cent of those came in one game: a chaotic 4-4 draw in April 2012, when Moyes was in charge of Everton.

With international stars such as Thilo Kehrer, Kurt Zouma, Declan Rice, Jarrod Bowen and Gianluca Scamacca in their team, West Ham should have more class, personality and courage than at any time in Moyes’s reign.

If they are to continue to push forward, they need to be able to show it away to the most formidable opponents. And if Moyes can smash that barrier, lifting his personal curse, then West Ham’s development as a club could enter a new phase.

Mad Dog 1:08 Sun Oct 30
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

He'll set up defensively. We'll concede and then and only then will we have a go.
It will probably be too late to salvage a point.

Isn't The definition of madness if doing rhe same thing Iver and over again and expecting a different result?

Kandu 9:26 Sun Oct 30
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

I grew up watching us regularly get thumped 4-0 at Old Trafford.
More recently we couldn’t play Man City without conceding at least 5, home or away.
Now with Moyes, yes more defensive, probably yes less attractive to watch, but at least we don’t (usually) get taken apart by teams like some have already - Bournemouth, and a few others. If we’re level or only one goal behind going into the latter stages of a game there’s always the chance we can get a goal from something, so we’re still technically ‘in the game’. If we’re 3 or more down by that stage, and the way our attack (midfield/strikers) are currently playing - still not firing/clicking then we’ve no chance of rescuing anything. Only time I remember us actually doing that in recent times was the 3-3 at Spurs but that was exceptional.
Moyes in.

Huffers 9:47 Sun Oct 30
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

I couldn’t give a fuck what you grew up watching. A loss is a loss and it sends me to sleep. We often beat Chelsea & Man United in the past. A few wins against Man City and Liverpool too. Now Moyes thinks we have lost when the fixtures get released.

Manuel 9:58 Sun Oct 30
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

Huffers - Agree, but I only think that applies to the away games. I heard it put quite well recently by someone who said that in his head we only have 32 games a season in which to get points from.

Eerie Descent 9:59 Sun Oct 30
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

LUCK.

And there you go. Exactly what I've been saying, this manager bases his whole football philosophy on luck.

We set up, every single game, to keep as many men behind the ball as possible, and hope for a bit off luck down the other end.

It's funny, but he's not mentioned the absolutely outrageous LUCK that we've had in recent weeks. Even going as far back as Villa, I'd say most of the points we've picked up have been due to luck.

How about trying to take luck out of the equation, and trying to fucking win football matches from kick off? You might find your LUCK changes a bit against these teams.

fraser 10:02 Sun Oct 30
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

I'd rather lose 4-0 having tried to win..

Even as Man U coach he failed to do it.

PwoperNaughtyButNot 10:08 Sun Oct 30
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

These are like Allardyce’s “Bonus” games

It’s a shame old school managers still think this way and I hope Moyes has a change of heart today and gives it a real go from the off.

Eerie Descent 10:13 Sun Oct 30
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

The thing is, you could half get your head round it if it actually worked from time to time.

That record is fucking scandalous. Not only that, but he's also not won at Man City in his last 8 visits, losing 7 drawing 1. Not saying you should expect to win there, but it just adds to this whole mad situation of being happy with a narrow defeat.

And yes, I really do think he comes away after a narrow loss in these games not too despondent, and pleased with the performance. If we draw, he gets the bunting out.

fraser 10:14 Sun Oct 30
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

Since we played Liverpool and some of our fans have been grateful that we only lost by one goal. Cause we used to get tonked there.. They've lost to Forest and Leeds..

We did the same at an out of form Chelsea, can't say I can see him trying any different today, hope I'm wrong.

twoleftfeet 10:24 Sun Oct 30
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

He is so rubbish, let’s sack him.

We ditched him once before and look what happened.

fraser 10:27 Sun Oct 30
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

I'm guessing feet has his champagne in the chiller, ready to celebrate another narrow loss

0-69

Takashi Miike 10:30 Sun Oct 30
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

"He is so rubbish, let’s sack him. "


yes, that's what you was saying just weeks ago. fuck off with your policing of criticism

Sir Alf 10:53 Sun Oct 30
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

This is all part of the Moyes Out discussion.

I am giving him more time to see if the introduction of Aguerd and availability of Cornet, Paqueta regularly will see any noticeable change to the way we play and our ability to match the rich 6 or 7.

It still means avoiding getting sucked into the relegation places which is not a given yet.

I am hoping this season’s uninspiring performances or “disjointed” ones are the result of a slow transition being underway but equally accept it could just be Moyes using new players in his trusted old school approach.

My patience has been tested this season and I am not confident Moyes will transition us to play a more entertaining, attacking and possession based game but he says that he wants us to do that. There are not too many obvious candidates to take over right now so, like I say, I will stick with him until Xmas despite the huge risk of seeing no real change.

The stat for us playing at the rich 6 and with Everton suggests Moyes doesn’t know or just won’t take an attack minded approach. That could well be true but he never really had the resources at Everton like he now has at West Ham and he still has credit for getting us this far in tge last 2 years.

The next few months pre and post WC will decide it for me but I realise on the subject of Moyes I am more patient than most.

Sajmo1 10:56 Sun Oct 30
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

Well that record is absolutely ridiculous. Probably the worst in the history of pl. It speaks for itself.

North Bank 12:03 Sun Oct 30
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

"What it comes down to is trying to make your own luck by being brave and positive"

Being brave and positive starts with the the team selections and tactics Mr Moyes, if your brave and positive with those then there's a good chance you may break your hoodoo.

I expect a 5-3-2 today with Downes in the three and Fornals supporting Scamacca.

Huffers 2:08 Sun Oct 30
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

Last week this sausage was saying he prepares to play Bournemouth at home the same way he prepares to play Liverpool away. Unfortunately it’s not the way round you would want it.

The Hammers 7:59 Sun Oct 30
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

Fact: Moyes has not won in 16 Premier League away visits to Old Trafford as a manager.

Very Poor.

Mad Dog 8:27 Sun Oct 30
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

Shocker.

It's as if this wasn't predictable and I didn't say exactly what was going to happen first reply on this thread

Sajmo1 8:29 Sun Oct 30
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

Do people still enjoy watching us? You know what to expect every single game. And it's not good.

fraser 8:46 Sun Oct 30
Re: David Moyes' kryptonite: trips to the big six

Some do, I reckon feet has opened the champagne and put the bunting up..

Page 1 - Next